How is the will of the Father done in the heavens? Everyone may read
in the Bible that when Lucifer rebelled against the Father, and
against Jesus Christ, His Son, he was cast out of heaven, with all
those who partook of his spirit.
Were they not all cast out of heaven? We are praying
constantly that that may be done on earth, even as it was done in
heaven. Would you not like to have the day come when those who rally
to the standard of wickedness, which the devil raises, will be cast
out; when the Saints may live in peace, and enjoy the comforts of
life—partake of one spirit, and be one from that time henceforth, and
forever? I am praying for that time to come, and I believe that God
will spare my life until I can have the privilege, with thousands of
others, of casting corrupt, rebellious beings from our midst.
If I do not live to behold that period, in the flesh, as the Lord
liveth, I will see and enjoy it in the spirit, and I will help to
accomplish that work. What, in this body? If not in this body I shall
in my new one, for I am going to have a new one when I have done my
work in this tabernacle which I now possess, and which you now see.
I wish to do my work, and to have it well done, that I may merit and
purchase, by my faithfulness, a new body which will be after the
similitude of the body I now have.
This tabernacle will be laid down, and my spirit will pass through the
veil, into the world of spirits. I told you, the other day, that when
you are through with this state of existence your labor is not at an
end. The spirit world will probably be equal to this, in that respect,
and I think, a little harder.
Here we pray that the time will come when the will of the Father will
be done on earth as in heaven. Did not they cast out the devil and all
who rallied to his standard? They did.
I have been much interested with the discourse just delivered by
brother Wells; it is true. Treasure up the words he has spoken, for
your salvation depends upon your observing and walking by them. You
are not all indebted to the Perpetual Emigrating Fund, but a good many
of you are. That Company is in debt, and who does the weight of that
debt rest upon? Upon brother Brigham, and upon those whom he calls to
his assistance. Do you feel interested in the welfare of that Company?
Many of you do not care one dime for the P. E. Fund. That is plain
language, but it is true.
Is President Young oppressed? He is; and he is perplexed with those
debts which have been made without his knowledge and sanction. It is
far easier to contract a debt than it is to pay it.
Many of our Elders abroad run the Company into debt. What a sway I
could have, if I had the privilege of incurring liabilities to the
amount of fifty, sixty, or eighty thousand dollars, and not be under
obligation to pay one dime of it, but leave our President to foot the
It is just as reasonable for us all to run into debt at these stores,
and then expect the President to pay our debts. What an unwise policy
to run the people into debt, beyond the means for prompt payment, and
that too at a time when we were clear of debt, the result of brother
Brigham's skillful financiering and wise management.
He foresaw that these hard times were coming, and labored hard that we
might be independent and not be oppressed, but instead of that he is
It is as necessary to talk about this as it is to talk about anything
else. Why? Because all the poor Saints who are in England, France,
Denmark, Italy, Asia, or any part of the earth, where there is a poor
Saint, are dependent upon the P. E. Fund to bring them to this
They are paying their means into that Fund, are struggling to have an interest in it, and should not you have an interest in it?
Yes, just as much as they, and have more need to exert yourselves, if
you are indebted to it.
To say nothing of indebtedness to the Fund, there is not a man or
woman that professes to be a member in this Church, but what should be
just as much interested and as diligent in this matter, as are brother
Brigham, brother Heber, brother Grant, or the Twelve Apostles. Do you
feel so? To all appearance you do not, apparently the most you care
for is your bread and meat.
As to the circumstances under which we are placed, I do not
particularly care, all I care about them is the extra care and labor
they bring upon me, for I have to keep on the trot to wait on the
people who come to me for flour and meal, and for this and that.
Do they come from the Ward I live in? No, they come from different
Wards, and some come to beg, some to buy, and some to exchange.
I wish that these matters could be attended to in the Wards where they
belong. Let each one take what provision he can spare, from time to
time, whether little or much, to the Bishop of his Ward, and let that
Bishop and his helps make a righteous distribution of that food.
I do not wish to be placed under the necessity of administering to the
wants of so many, in addition to the large number I have to provide
for, neither does brother Brigham; it is too onerous a burden, and we
have not the provisions.
Some may think that there is a great supply of wheat, corn, barley,
&c., now in the Tithing Office. I was there myself, two or three weeks
ago, and I asked brother Hill to show me all the grain there, and the
whole amount would not exceed six hundred bushels. How long will it
take to feed that out? I deal out over one thousand pounds every week,
and sometimes over fourteen hundred pounds.
What toll has been taken at my mill during the last seven months? Not
to exceed one bushel a day, on account of the want of water, and that
does not pay the miller. Brother Brigham's mill does not have more
than one-quarter or one-third the grain it can grind, and he has
hundreds of persons to support. He has enough to do and to think of,
to kill any man under God's heaven, unless he was supported and upheld
by an Almighty power.
What are my cares? I said sometime since, that my immediate family
consisted of seventy-nine persons, which I feed, clothe, and shelter,
and I furnish thirteen fires all the time. This care and expense
should be borne by the Church, and I, left free to attend to the
labors more directly pertaining to the Priesthood. But, as it is, I
now assist many, besides entirely supporting my large family. I feed
widows and their families, who do not belong to me any more than they
belong to you.
Has brother Brigham got a heavier load than I have? Yes, he feeds his
hundreds, besides aiding other hundreds who do not directly belong to
I wish you Bishops to take some of these loads. I sometimes feel as
though I could not live, still I get along with those I am obliged to
feed. There is not a member in my family, with the exception of my
first wife and my first children, who have ever begun to see the hard
times that I have seen.
In my younger days I have seen the time when, for two weeks together,
we were under the necessity of eating boiled milkweeds, and that too
with out having to salt them. Have any of you come to that yet?
I have seen the time in Nauvoo, the last time I went to England, when
I could sit down with my family and eat all we had in the house, and
then not have half enough. I never was so poor in my life as I was
then, and I was sickly and afflicted. Was I happy? Yes, just as happy
as I am now, and just as comfortable in my feelings.
I always felt as thankful when I had not anything as when I had
plenty; I feel as thankful with a little as I do with ever so much.
But I have heard some people say, that they could not ask God to bless
a johnnycake, and feel thankful for it. I could mention many such
characters, people who are never thankful, only when they have an
abundance. I am thankful when I have a little; I am thankful now, and
I never was more so than I am this day, for there is a prospect of
some people learning a lesson, though I doubt very much whether all
Does it make all humble? No, for many are calculating to start for
California directly. Thank God for that, not a soul of them will cause
me to shed a tear at their leaving, not even if they were members of
my own family. Inasmuch as they wish to go, go, say I, off with you,
there are plenty more where you grew. But when you go, do not steal
what few cattle we have left.
Brother Erastus Snow, while in the States, borrowed money to assist
the P. E. Fund Company. I have some property close to my house, on the
west side of the street, five, six, or seven thousand dollars worth,
that I will let any of you have for drafts against the Fund. I also
have two farms and some cattle that I will dispose of for the same
kind of pay, and the farms have as good soil as you will find in the
I do not wish to let you have my sheep, for I am determined that my
family shall make their own clothing. I am going to organize a
domestic manufacturing company, in my own family; we are going to make
up our own clothing and attend to our own business. Let us do this in
every family throughout this City, and throughout this Territory.
It is necessary for us to take a course, to put ourselves into a
situation where we may be as independent in our sphere of action, as
God is in His. You have heard brother Brigham say, a thousand times,
that there is nothing we wear, eat, or drink, but what is in the
elements around us. It is for us to take these elements and organize
them, and put them into a condition in which we can use them.
I know that there are a great many good people here; the jewels of the
earth are in this congregation, and in different parts of this
Territory; they are jewels of the earth, both male and female. Some of
the meanest of people are here also; on natural principles there must
needs be an opposition.
A company of men was selected to go to Las Vegas to strengthen up that
settlement, and I understand that other men were getting up companies
for other purposes.
We wish those who are appointed to go to Las Vegas, to Green River,
and to other places, to go where they are appointed, and nowhere else,
and not to listen to any man on earth who would influence them to go
somewhere else, unless they are dictated to take a different course by
the President of this Church.
Thomas S. Williams is getting up a company to go on an exploring
excursion; he proposed doing so, and brother Brigham told him to act
his own pleasure. It is his own individual proposal and affair, and
not an appointment by the authorities of this Church. I speak
of this, that the brethren may not misunderstand the matter.
We are willing that brother T. S. Williams should explore the Colorado
regions, the Pimo country, and every part of the earth, but those who
go with him, go on their own responsibility.
I am not making these remarks with a view to interfere with his
operations, but we wish him to understand that we do not intend to
have him interfere with those who are going to Las Vegas, Green River,
or any other point to which we are sending brethren. You can now
understand the matter perfectly, so that you need not run to brother
Brigham, to me, to brother Grant, or to anybody else. When we make an
appointment we wish it carried out, unless it is altered by the proper
authority. I think I have said enough on that subject, you can now
understand it, if you choose to.
My feelings are, if God blesses and sustains me, to build a good
storehouse for my grain this season, I am going to lay up everything I
can raise. I say this for the benefit of brother Hunter, and all the
Bishops in the House of Israel. Follow the example if you think it is
a good one, and lay up stores of grain, against the time of need, for
you will see the time when there will not be a kernel raised and when
thousands and millions will come to this people for bread. You cannot
believe it, can you? You may say, "If one of the old Prophets could
rise from the dead and declare it, we would then believe it, but,
brother Heber, it is hard to believe it from you. You are very liable
to take colds, if you were a servant of God, you would not have any
Upon the same principle I can say, if you are the servants of God, why
do you get hungry? I should not suppose that you would ever be hungry.
I am a servant of God, and if you do not know it, I bear testimony of
it, and I am a companion to Brigham Young, and will be forever and
When I was in Fillmore, a certain Judge came to me in a dream, and
wished to know what a portion of Scripture meant; says I, "What
Scripture?" He replied, "That Scripture which says, three men shall
die for the world." I observed, that I did not know that it would be
any worse for three men to die for the world than it was for one, but
if three men have got to die, they will first have to catch them. When
the Lord pleases, we shall die, and not before. Joseph did not die
until it was the Lord's time.
Brethren will you do right? If so, go to and exert yourselves, in
every way within your power, in raising grain and every kind of
sustenance, and call your wives and children to your assistance, in
the accomplishment of the great object now before us.
Since we have been here, my family have always had enough, and I tell
them that if they will follow my counsel, they will never go short of
food, but if they do not, they may see want. I feel well, I feel as
though I could "run through a troop and leap over a wall." I expect to
see close times, and so will you. I expect to see scores of you take
the backtrack, that is, many of you will deny the faith. Why do I say
this? Because you do not do right; you do not all keep the
commandments of God; you do not all pray and humble yourselves in the
hands of the Lord, like clay in the hands of the potter. You are not
all subject to the authorities, whom the Lord has placed to counsel
and direct you. For this reason, many are losing the good Spirit and
are going into darkness. If you will not be molded and fashioned to
take the place, and honor the position in which God designs you to
act, He will cut that lump off from the wheel, and throw it back into the mill to be ground over again. Then He will take another
lump and put it in the place where the refractory one was, and if that
is not passive, He will cut it off and put on another.
Do I feel to bless you? Yes, I could bless you from this time
henceforth and forever, but what good would it do you, without you
live for it? You may go to the Patriarchs, to the Prophets, and
Apostles, and even get all the men in Israel to lay their hands on you
and bless you, and though they bless you from this time to all
eternity, yet, unless you continue steadfast in well-doing, you may go
to hell after all. What would it avail to receive blessings, if you do
not live for them and merit them by doing as God says? If I live to
God and keep His commandments, I shall have so many blessings that I
shall not have room for them, and you all have the same privilege.
Let us strive to live our religion, that we may continually enjoy the
rich blessings of Heaven, which may God grant, for His Son's sake.
- Heber C. Kimball