I am pleased to have the opportunity to meet with the Saints here; and
I have been quite interested in the remarks you have heard this
morning from Bro. Joseph F. Smith. There are a great many principles
associated with the Gospel of the Son of God; and Bro. Joseph has
presented some things that are quite interesting and then there may be
a few things said on the other side of the question that are equally
true. Those doctrines he has taught are true; they are in accordance
with the spirit of the Gospel. We ought always live with reference to
eternity, feeling full of kindness, benevolence, charity and long
suffering to all, respecting always the motives and circumstances of
others. Then on the other hand while we do that, it is not right for
others to take advantage of that benevolence because a man is a good
man and an honorable man, a man that fears God and who is lenient,
kind, merciful and forgiving, it is not right for others to take
advantage of such goodness and praiseworthy actions; there are two
sides to all these matters, the question of debtor and creditor is not
all on one side. I will mention a thing here which has been alluded to
before, and which will serve to make plain my meaning, I refer to the
operations of the Perpetual Emigrating Fund. There has been a very
large amount expended for the gathering of the poor Saints to this
country. Have any been pressed by that Fund for the payment of what
they owe it? No. Yet there are many of you who have gone with your
teams—if you have not gone, you have sent them—to assist this people.
What for? Because you felt it in your heart to do it, and because you
were called upon to do it, and because you were doing it in obedience
to a command of God. You not only furnished teams, but you furnished
provisions for the emigrating Saints. Now they, on the other hand,
covenanted and gave their notes for the payment of this indebtedness,
which if paid according to promise, would have been used to emigrate
other Saints similarly situated. Was it right for you to bring them
here and to supply them with food, etc.? Yes. It is right for us to
engage in such enterprises? Yes, because the Gospel requires it at our
hands, and the love of God and the love of our brethren. This was done in good faith. Should not this be met? There are a million of
dollars due today on this account. Is it right that it should be so?
No. Have these debtors been pressed, or has anybody seized them by the
throat, saying, Pay me what thou owest? Not that I am aware of. Have
they been dragged before courts of justice? No. But still the debt
remains unpaid; and there is a question that arises in my mind. Will
it remain there, until it removes itself or not? This is a little on
the other side of the question, and this is not a small thing either,
and it is something we are all familiar with. If this matter has not
been pressed, it makes the obligation none the less sacred. We are
told to pay our debts, to meet our obligations, to deal justly and
righteously one with another. And I wish we had no debts to pay; I
wish we could so live as to keep out of debt and meet our obligations
day by day. But then we do not do this; if we did we should be much
better and more pleasantly situated and feel more comfortable in our
feelings and dispositions. And if people do not do these things, what
then? There is a way appointed by the Lord, and that is to adjust them
before the bishops' courts. We as Latter-day Saints ought to be
governed by the laws of the church and not by the laws of the land,
until the law of God is complied with. How far would you take them?
Just as far as the law of God prescribes. If a man sin against another
is it good and charitable and kind to forgive him? Yes. Now, I will
speak of myself. I never sued a man either before our own courts or
any other courts. Why? Because I never thought the thing worth enough;
I never thought money and property worth enough to go to law about. I
think so yet, I think it rather too small an affair to break up those
fraternal relations that should exist between brother and brother.
Then do you believe in owing people and not paying them? No, I do not.
I believe in meeting engagements honorably and honestly before God.
But will men be blessed for being forgiving? Well, I think so. And I
think that, as Latter-day Saints, we will have a good chance of
obtaining quite a blessing on account of our forbearance in relation
to those having obligations before referred to; for there is, as I
have said, a million of dollars owing among the people, and I do not
think they have been pressed to pay it. But I wish people would do
nearly right. I wish they would act honorably and uprightly and
consistently and properly, and all meet their obligations and pursue
an upright course. But there is again another question to be adjusted
in this matter. It is not the value of the money alone nor how it will
affect me; but how are others affected by it? A perpetual fund was
established, which fund contemplated a continual help, a continual
return of the money loaned and perpetual fund kept always on hand, for
the assistance of those requiring aid. This fund was not designed as a
gift, but as a loan; but now it happens that this fund is crippled,
because men have not returned their loans. It is not therefore a
matter as between ourselves, but one that affects hundreds that are
very much worse off than those who owe these debts. The cry is
continually coming to our ears for help. The poverty, distress, and
trouble in Europe are on the increase, and we have continually to hear
the wails of the poor; they look to us for help, but those debtors
have got their means and are using it. There is another cry; it is not
those debtors being oppressed by us; but the un gathered poor
being defrauded by those who have borrowed money and do not return it.
It may become quite a question as to how far we are justified in
permitting those who have been assisted, by this public fund by
withholding what they justly owe, to block the wheels of the
institution and deprive others, who may be more meritorious than
themselves, of obtaining that relief which is justly their due. But do
you believe in being grasping? No. Do you believe in covetousness? No,
I do not. I think that as Latter-day Saints we ought to have our minds
fixed on something else—something more elevating, more exalting, more
honorable, and more in accordance with the position we occupy and the
principles we profess to believe in.
As this subject has been broached, I wish now to speak a little in
regard to our manner of doing business. We are mixed up a good deal at
present—you, here in Ogden, are especially, and we in Salt Lake are
too—with Gentile institutions, and their practice is strictly upon the
ground referred to by brother Joseph, "an eye for an eye, and a tooth
for a tooth, pay me that thou owest," etc., which in one sense is all
very correct; but there is a better way to settle difficulties, which
is by mixing up with it a little charity and benevolence, and then it
does very well. But when we talk about "popping men through" the
courts who do not do thus and so, as has been referred to, I tell you
what you should do, whenever a man would attempt to "pop" you through
the courts of the law of the land, you should "pop" him through the
courts of our Church; you should bring him up for violating the laws
of the Church, for going to law before the ungodly, instead of using
the means that God has appointed. We think, as Latter-day Saints,
that the laws of God are a little in advance of the laws of the land;
and, in fact, it is not an infrequent thing for men not belonging to
our Church to express themselves desirous to bring their cases for
trial before our High Council, believing they could get better justice
than they could before the courts of the world; I believe it with all
my heart. Latter-day Saints, we ought to be controlled by correct
principles; and if anybody is sinned against, we have our remedy. If
the brother that Brother Joseph F. Smith has referred to, instead of
cherishing and harboring those unpleasant feelings, had gone to his
brother who had given him offense, and told him that his feelings were
hurt at some word he had spoken, and he thought he would come and talk
the matter squarely to him, that little affair would have been
settled, and good feelings would have existed between them. But then,
supposing after being so waited on, your brother would not hear you,
it would then be proper to wait on him again, taking with you another
brother; and if he still persisted to manifest hard feelings, it would
then be proper to report him to the Church, and let the matter be
brought to the notice of the Teachers or the Priests, as the case
might be. If he refuse to hearken to their counsel, let a charge be
preferred against him to his Bishop who, with his counselors, should
hear and decide the case according to the evidence, with all
long-suffering and humility and justice and prayer before God, to
guide him in his decision. And when they operate together in this way,
such things will be disposed of aright. And if either party should be
dissatisfied with the decision, an appeal could he taken to a
higher court—the High Council. And when that body of men sit upon the
case and render their decision in the matter, and if the brother
refuse to hear them, what then? He is cut off the Church. "But (a man
may say) it is a matter of dollars and cents, and if a man owe me
$5,000, I cannot afford to lose it, and what recourse have I?" Bring
him up before the Church, and if he will not listen to the counsel of
the Church authorities, let him be dealt with by this council. And
what will be the result? He will be severed from the Church. "And am
I to lose my money?" No, not necessarily so; he is outside of the
Church, and now you can "pop him through" by the law, if that be the
term you use. And this is why we take such pains in electing our
representatives to our legislature. We try to select good men in order
that we may have good laws enacted, and then we try to get good
Probate Judges. Brother Richards here is a Probate Judge, and is he a
good man? I think he is. Is he an Apostle? Yes. Well, would it be
right to take your case to him as a Probate Judge? No; if you were to,
we would deal with you for your fellowship. You say, "That's a curious
doctrine." You have agreed to be governed by the laws of the Church,
and I mention this to show you what would be right in regard to
principles of that kind. And if after summoning the parties referred
to before the Bishop's Court, and from there the case be carried
before the High Council, and then he would not do right, the
consequence would be that he would be cut off from the Church, and
then you would be at liberty to summon him before Brother Richards, as
a Judge of Probate. But there possibly might be an appeal from the
High Council, and Brother Richards, in a Church capacity, might be one
to consider the case, then that would be all right.
I speak of these things to show what our duties are, and the position
we occupy. Do you remember what the Apostle Paul said when talking to
some of the former-day Saints on this subject? The people to whom he
addressed himself were doubtless like some of our easy-going brethren,
who are always in trouble a good deal, and are always wanting to "pop
'em through." Says he, in the 6th chapter of Corinthians, "Dare any of
you, having a matter against a brother, go to law before the unjust?
Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the
world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest
matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things
that pertain to this life? I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there
is not a wise man among you? No, not one that shall be able to judge
between his brethren. But brother goeth to law with brother, and that
before the unbelievers. Now, therefore, there is utterly a fault among
you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take
wrong? Why do ye not, rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?" etc.,
and is it not said too, in speaking of the Twelve, that they shall sit
upon twelve thrones, and shall judge the Twelve Tribes of Israel? And
does not the Church today possess the same officers as it did
anciently, and are they not set apart by the revelation of God, and
ordained by the holy Priesthood to occupy this position? Are these men
not competent to judge of the comparatively trivial things associated
with this life? And yet you will take your brother before ungodly men to be judged of them. I tell you the hand of God will
follow you if you do it. And we do not want any such thing done by any
calling themselves Latter-day Saints; and Israel cannot do such things
with the approbation of God, or the councils of his Church. And I will
give you fair warning, and I call upon Brother Peery here, who is
President of this Stake, to carry it out, that when he finds any
Latter-day Saint under his jurisdiction going to law with his brother
before the ungodly, to bring him up and deal with him for his
fellowship. This is a correct principle before God; and as Saints of
God we should be governed by his laws, and not by the laws of the
world. But these laws are made and provided for our protection, and
when it is proper and right we can make use of them in common with
other citizens. But we have laws among ourselves, and all honorable
men among us will submit to the decisions of our Church authorities,
and those who are not honorable we do not want, and we will cut them off.
I attended your monthly priesthood meeting yesterday. I find there has
been a little feeling about the districting of your city, which ought
not to exist. We sometimes get a little zealous in those local
matters, each has his own ideas, and is desirous of carrying them out.
I do not know that I have any idea of my own about these matters. I am
desirous to ascertain the will of God and if I know that, I want to do
it regardless of my opinion, that does not amount to much. But if we
can know the will of God and understand the principles of life, and
then abide by them, all will be well. And as to what imaginary line or
district you live in, I do not think it makes much difference. We want
a little of this good feeling of brotherhood about which Brother
Joseph has been speaking so pleasantly. Jesus says: "Blessed are the
meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do
hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." That is of
more value a great deal than dollars and cents, if you could but
understand it. It is worth ten thousand million times more, for they
perish with their using. You brought nothing into the world; you can
take nothing out. By and by, and a little space of ground six feet by
two is all you will want, and your money and your property you will
leave for others to handle. "Blessed are they which do hunger and
thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Blessed are
whom? The liar, the hypocrite, the thief, the rogue, the debauchee?
No; but "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Let
us hunt after these things, and seek to possess more of these
principles which were taught and inculcated by our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ.
We have introduced among us the kingdom of God. What is meant by it?
The law, the rule, the government of God. Now, the Lord has laid down
a perfect law in relation to our temporal affairs and we would not see
so much squabbling among us if we could carry it out. I refer to what
we call the United Order. But we cannot bear it, it seems too much for
us, as much as we talk and boast of our intelligence we cannot come to
some of these little principles of the Gospel. Some of us can manage
to pay our tithing, and some of us cannot. And then some of us can
believe a little in cooperation, and we think that it is a terrible
stride; to me that is one of the least things that God ever
instituted among men and I sometimes think if we cannot do that we had
better quit. Talk about being Gods and organizing worlds; why if we
fail in such a comparatively small undertaking, I do not think we have
faith enough to drag a sitting hen from her nest. If we cannot be
united in some of these little things, how can we in greater things?
We were talking about the principle of cooperation in our priesthood
meeting; and I thought I would refer to it here. And we are getting up
County or rather Stake organizations throughout Zion. And we want in
all of our temporal affairs to deal justly one with another. We want
to sustain cooperation, and then we want cooperation to sustain us.
It is not all on one side; there are two sides. If we sustain
cooperation, we will call upon cooperation to sustain us; and all
the settlements throughout the Territory will be represented, just the
same as the Saints today are represented in the Church through the
Presidents of Stakes, and we will try to do right ourselves, and then
we will try and see that they do right. We will sustain them with
good, honest efforts, and we want square up and down operations on
both sides, carrying out the principles of cooperation honestly and
truthfully before God and man. This is what we expect and we expect it
from your President, his Counselors and also from the Bishops and from
all the people. And if you cannot do this never talk about making
worlds.
The world is opposed to us. They say they are not. Well, would you
injure them? No; I would not hurt a hair of their heads or deprive
them of any right they enjoy, either religious or political. We want
to treat all men kindly and with due respect; but we do not want to be
governed by their religious views, nor put our children under their
teachings. We want to look after the education of our children and see
that they are placed under proper teachers and receive proper
training, and not be placed in the hands of the enemies of the Church
and kingdom of God.
Now brethren if we are Latter-day Saints, let us be consistent with
our belief and profession. I profess to be a Latter-day Saint, and I,
believe in the doctrines that the Lord has revealed to us with all my
heart; and I do not care who knows it. Now I am told in the
revelations to bring up my children in the fear of God. I believe that
this kingdom which the Lord has set up will grow and increase until
the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our God and his
Christ. And this you believe as well as I do. We believe in celestial
glory; and we believe in terrestrial and telestial glory; or in other
words, we believe there will be a separation finally of the good from
the bad. Now we are engaged gathering together, or separating
ourselves from the world and building our temples and administering in
them for the living and the dead, and we spend millions of dollars in
the accomplishment of this object, that we may become united and
linked together by eternal covenants that shall exist in all time and
throughout eternity. And then, when we have done all this go and
deliberately turn our children over to whom? To men who do not believe
the Gospel, to men who, according to your faith, are never going to
the celestial kingdom of God. They will get as big a glory as they are
prepared for, but they are not going there. And you will turn your
children over to them. And you call yourselves Latter-day Saints, do
you? I will suppose a case. You expect to be saved in the
celestial kingdom of God. Well, supposing your expectations are
realized, which I sometimes doubt, and you look down, down somewhere
in a terrestrial or telestial kingdom, as the case may be, and you
there see your children, the offspring that God had given you to train
up in his fear, to honor him and keep his commandments, and perceive
that between you and them there is a great gulf, as represented by the
Savior in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. And supposing they
could converse with you—which, however, they could not do—but if such
were the case, what would be their feelings towards you? It would be,
Father, mother, you are to blame for this. I would have been with you
if you had not tampered with the principles of life and salvation in
permitting me to be decoyed away by false teachers, who taught
incorrect principles. And this is the result of it. But then I very
much question men and women's getting into the celestial kingdom of
God who have no more knowledge about the principles of life and
salvation than to go and tamper with the sacred offspring, the
principle of life which God entrusted to your care, to thus shuffle it
off to imbibe the spirit of unbelief, which leads to destruction and
death. I very much doubt in my mind the capability of such people
getting there. We had better look after ourselves a little. God has
given us light and he expects us to be governed by it. In speaking of
Abraham he says, "I know him." What do you know of him? That he will
fear me. What else? "That he will command his children after him, and
they shall keep the way of the Lord. To do justice and judgment; that
the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him."
Well, the time is passing, but before closing, I wish to say a word or
two in regard to this cooperation in temporal things. They are very
little things, but they form a kind of stepping stone towards other
and more important events. A closer union which we shall expect to
inaugurate by-and-by, but which we are not prepared to yet. But for
the time being it is expected that as honorable men and women, we will
honestly and truly carry out our covenants in regard to these little
temporal things; and let us be one, for the Lord has plainly told us,
if ye are not one, ye are not mine. If ye are not mine, whose are ye?
You can figure that up just as you please. These are the facts in
relation to this matter, we are desirous to bring about these things.
What for? For the sake of making money? No. Money is of little
importance where truth is concerned. I would not care if all the money
was out of existence, but I do care about the principles, and the laws
of God, about men being what they profess to be, and not
hypocrites, belying their profession. We expect to see these things
carried out in honesty and truth, because it is the order which God
has introduced as a steppingstone to something in the future. We
build temples and administer in them. How? Precisely according to the
revelations which God has given to us; but when it comes to our
temporal affairs, we would ride over and almost totally ignore the
laws which he has given to us to govern them. Jesus says, "In vain you
say to me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say." And I say,
In vain you will say, Lord, Lord, if you cannot attend to these little
things; and those who will not, God will shake out from among his
people. Now hear it, ye Latter-day Saints! and be not de ceived: God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall
he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh, shall of the flesh reap
corruption; but he that soweth to the spirit, shall of the spirit reap
life everlasting." We should be governed by correct principles in the
fear of God; and should righteously, uprightly, and virtuously
preserve our bodies and spirits pure, and keep all the laws of God and
seek to comprehend his will in regard to all things, and feel that we
are here to build up the kingdom of God and not ourselves, to
establish the principles of righteousness and of truth and the laws of
heaven, and not our ideas and theories; for through the ordinances of
God and through obedience to his laws come the blessings of God to
Israel in time and through all eternity.
God bless you and lead you in the paths of life, in the name of Jesus.
Amen.